Jul 08 2005



I’m just so depressed about London that I can hardly think about it properly. The thing that makes me even more sad than the fact that so many people got killed or injured? The thought that this will lend so much support to the revolting war in Iraq. I mean, Blair is behind the war, being a political shit-sucker like Bush, but the people of England weren’t as fervent. Now? I’m sure there are still dissenters, but I’m also sure they must be in the extreme minority. I understand getting angry when you’ve been attacked at home, and this was, in relation to their population, an attack like 9-11 (ughh- that phrase still makes me queasy). But this war did not need any more ammo. Maybe England will surprise me, but, then again, they are humans and humans in groups, especially when threatened, are not the clearest thinking creatures.

One guy in my office came up to my desk today and, just as a pleasantry said “what’s up”. I said “it’s so sad about London” (I’m bad at pleasantries- I always assume people want a real answer). He said something about al-Qaida. I said “well, they’re not sure it was them”. He said “you’re a liberal, aren’t you”. I said “I guess”. He said “so, do you think they should be protected under the Geneva convention when they’re captured or should they be shot and killed on sight?” I froze for a moment while my brain tried to process this. I said “well, I guess I think it depends on the context.” He said “No it doesn’t. They’re not a real, uniformed army and we should kill them when we see them. It’s completely black and white.” I think I gaped.

I’m so nauseated by the fact that anyone thinks this way. How can something so complex ever be thought of as “black and white”? There are so many things wrong with what he said that I can’t even go into it. Right now, I just don’t think I could make sense of it all enough to write anything anybody would understand. Do you ever feel that way? Like something is just too insane to even break into enough pieces to think clearly about?

So all you “liberals” hold your loved ones close, because some of the scariest people out there aren’t the ones our government is fighting. And good luck to all of us trying to raise our children. Sometimes it feels like humanity is tough to come by.


  • By Johnny Logic, July 8, 2005 @ 1:19 pm

    Perhaps your co-worker should read the legal literature on the subject and reflect on the purpose of standards of human treatment.

    Violence is sometimes called for, but spiteful, dehumanizing violence is never appropriate. Dehumanization of any kind impoverishes our own humanity.

  • By Johnny Logic, July 8, 2005 @ 1:20 pm

    ‘human’ should read ‘humane’.

  • By Slackbastard, July 9, 2005 @ 10:59 pm

    Umm. Hi. I just moved to Texas. I feel like somehow I’ve switched sides of this menacing metphorical gun, from the barrel end to the trigger end. Oh yeah, I’m a Stranger in a Strange Land.

  • By Anonymous, July 11, 2005 @ 3:28 am

    It amazes me that people will bemoan this f’d up war, but nobody has bemoaned the culture of hate inherent in Islam, nor how not one single leader in the internatinal islamic community has issued a “fathwa” condemning such actions.

    As a lefty, it sickens me that you’d go for the throat of the U. s. when it’s clearly an islamic gesture.

    Oh – that’s right, let’s cover up the reality that Islam is a religion of hate (then again, all religions are, by virtue of their very existence).

  • By Johnny Logic, July 11, 2005 @ 8:56 am


    Nobody has bemoaned the culture of hate in Islam? Huh? Plenty have. Well, let me be the first you have known of to bemoan the culture of hate present in some sects of Islam—it is wrong!

    What Dani is bemoaning is the kind of simplistic thinking that can be dangerous in Muslims, Americans and others; for example, Islam = Hate. There are many Muslim sects and individuals with different understanding of their religion. See Islam for more information. Characterizing (and condemning) an entire people from the actions of a small minority is a mistake.

    Regarding the condemnation of such actions by the Islamic community– many have condemned them, for example:

    Mulsim leaders of Finsbury Park mosque condemn attack

    European Muslims Slam “Heinous” London Blasts

    Muslim Scholars, Countries Condemn London Bombings

  • By Johnny Logic, July 11, 2005 @ 9:04 am


    Oh, and how did Dani “go for the throat of the U. s.”?

  • By Anonymous, July 11, 2005 @ 10:21 pm

    Until there’s a fathwa decrying acts of terrorism then, in the islamic community there has been ZERO international Islamic protest.

    You fail to understand islam. It is a religion of hate. Study the history and the Qui’ran and you will understand.

    A former Muslim.

  • By Johnny Logic, July 12, 2005 @ 4:38 am

    Please ignore the “as well as” repetition.

  • By Johnny Logic, July 12, 2005 @ 4:38 am


    Reasserting your point is not evidence or argument.

    A quick search has yielded fatwas against violence and terrorism, as well as as well as protest from Muslims against terrorism:
    Spanish Fatwa Against Terrorism
    Saudi religious body issues Fatwa against terrorism and urging public to report suspects
    Free Muslims Coalition: March Against Terror

    This is certainly more than ” ZERO international Islamic protest”.

    Is any level of protest enough for you to not equate Islam with hate? What, other than your word and a particular reading of the Qui’ran held by some Muslims, supports your bold claim that Islam is a religion of hate? What does that even mean?

    It is interesting as an atheist to be in the position of defending the religious, but here I am.

  • By heels, July 12, 2005 @ 6:11 am

    Former Muslim:
    I find it interesting that, in response to a post about the danger of simplistic, “black and white” thinking that I would get such a simplistic comment.
    Please understand that I never meant to say that the US is always wrong and the Muslims are always right- that would make me just as wrong as my co-worker. In fact, I don’t remember ever saying that I supported Muslim beliefs. I believe I only ever said that I don’t think they should be “shot on sight”.
    I find it hard to believe that, as you make it sound, there is a Muslim “conspiracy” wherin every Muslim on the face of the earth is out to hurt every non-Muslim. Perhaps, in their culture, there is a tendency toward violence, but is there not in ours, as well? Are we not just more sophisticated in our execution?
    The point is that there are still too many unknowns- there will always be. I refuse to come down so solidly on one side or another, especially since there are so many sides! What tragedies such as what happened in London would do, in my ideal world, is spur discussion, communication and learning so that we all might better understand each other’s cultures. Will that happen this time? Perhaps not on as grand a scale as I would like, but we could each use it as inspiration to furthur our own understanding and then, at least, there would be a few more educated, complex thinkers in this world.

Other Links to this Post

RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a comment